[f-AA] ### Was Cleared to Land now Steven has new information for us!

[Steven P. McNicoll]

Joe,

I am an active FAA ATC type.

In an earlier message you requested information clarifying this issue.  I
provided links to the FAA order that very clearly indicates two airplanes
ARE allowed on the same runway during landing.  I know you saw that message
because it appears as quoted material in a query you directed to Roger
Anderson.  I suggest that you take time to examine that material yourself.
I also suggest you pass it on to your copilot.

Steven P. McNicoll
De Pere, WI


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <joeaksa at attglobal.net>
To: "Steven P. McNicoll" <roncachamp at earthlink.net>; <aeronca at westmont.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Was Cleared to Land now Steven hasnew informationfor
us!


> Steven,
>
> Considering that my copilot right now is a retired FAA ATC type, and he
> feels the
> same way that I do that two airplanes are NEVER allowed on the same runway
> during takeoff or landing, especially when it involves jet aircraft,
> believe that we have
> the "ATC procedures" part covered on this end.
>
> I would not consider "Usenet pilot forums" one of the best sources of
> information.
> The vast majority of the people there are recreational pilots who do not
> fly for a living.
>
> My copilot has a fairly solid understanding of FAA ATC procedures, learned
> after 30
> years of working in the system. Are you an FAA ATC type, active or
> retired?
>
> Joe A
>
> On 4 Aug 2007 at 12:04, Steven  P. McNicoll wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> Over ten years of active participation in several Usenet pilot forums
>> have
>> revealed two absolute truths to me:
>>
>> 1.)  Many pilots believe they have a solid understanding of ATC
>> procedures.
>>
>> 2.)  Few pilots actually have a solid understanding of ATC procedures.
>>
>>
>> Steven P. McNicoll
>> De Pere, WI
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <joeaksa at attglobal.net>
>> To: <aeronca at westmont.edu>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 4:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Was Cleared to Land now Steven hasnew
>> informationfor
>> us!
>>
>>
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> > Anticipated clearances is a whole different kettle of fish. I landed in
>> > Paris last night
>> > and was cleared to land a long way out. There were 6 aircraft in front
>> > of
>> > me for the
>> > approach but every one of them was clear of the active runway, the one
>> > we
>> > all
>> > landed on, before I actually touched down. The night before in London I
>> > was 3rd in
>> > line for the landing when cleared but again, the runway was clear
>> > before I
>> > touched
>> > down.
>> >
>> > Steven evidently has some information that I hope he shares with us
>> > that
>> > shows that
>> > its legal to have two airplanes on the same active runway at the same
>> > time,
>> > something that is not done anywhere in the world that I know of outside
>> > of
>> > military
>> > operations.
>> >
>> > Considering that you are with TC, what is the TC view of more than one
>> > airplane on
>> > the runway at one time? I landed in Dorval (Montreal) 10 days ago and
>> > was
>> > asked to
>> > expedite clearing the runway so that the airplane behind me could land.
>> > It
>> > sure
>> > seems that in Canada they want only one airplane on the runway at a
>> > time.
>> >
>> > Thx,
>> >
>> > Joe A
>> >
>> > On 3 Aug 2007 at 21:48, Spence, Mike wrote:
>> >
>> >> And hence, have we come full circle here - anticipated clearances...
>> >
>> >> Clearing an aircraft to land on a runway that has one clearing, one
>> >> over
>> >> the
>> >> numbers, one on a mile final, and I'm "cleared to land" with the
>> >> traffic
>> >> on final in
>> >> sight, as I turn the base. Now everyone has been "Cleared to Land".
>> >>
>> >> Mike S.
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >>
>> >> From: aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu on behalf of joeaksa at attglobal.net
>> >> Sent: Fri 8/3/2007 3:47 PM
>> >> To: aeronca at westmont.edu
>> >> Cc: roncachamp at earthlink.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Was Cleared to Land now Steven has new
>> >> informationfor us!
>> >>
>> >> Steven,
>> >>
>> >> In 37 years of flying and over 15,000 hours in airplanes this is the
>> >> first time I have
>> >> ever had anyone tell me that its ok to land with another airplane
>> >> still
>> >> on the runway.
>> >>
>> >> Military applications aside, from what Roger posted earlier as well as
>> >> my
>> >> experience
>> >> around the world, its illegal for the control tower staff to approve a
>> >> landing of a jet
>> >> airplane on a runway with another airplane still on the same runway.
>> >>
>> >> Can you pls give us clarification on where you get this information so
>> >> that we can
>> >> pass it along to the control towers. I fly planes for a living and did
>> >> not know, nor have
>> >> ever had anyone clear me to land (in the civilian world that is) with
>> >> a
>> >> second airplane
>> >> on the runway. They must be missing something in the regulations that
>> >> you
>> >> need to
>> >> point out to them!
>> >>
>> >> Joe A
>> >>
>> >> On 3 Aug 2007 at 6:26, Steven  P. McNicoll wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>
>> >> > If you have an aversion to landing while there is still another
>> >> > airplane on
>> >> > the runway, then you should avoid airports with control towers,
>> >> > period.