[f-AA] ### Cleared to Land (was What's goingonwiththef-AAfamily?)###
Paul L. Safran
psafran at graffitis.com
Thu Aug 9 06:43:12 PDT 2007
one sure tries to avoid the rotor area of a wave event
sometimes the clouds will give you a hint, local experience
is usually the best chance of keeping it from becoming "routine"
Paul
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.
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Steadman
To: aeronca at westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Cleared to Land (was What's goingonwiththef-AAfamily?)###
I guess by "routine" I meant, at the places where they do that, they do it every chance they get.
On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Todd Pattist wrote:
I've flown gliders on tow through rotors. I agree with Fred that it's fairly common, but the level of excitement that sometimes occurs prohibits me from referring to the practice as "routine."
Todd
Fred Steadman wrote:I've never flown through the rotor, but did all but get called a liar
by folks on this list when I commented that gliders and tow planes
routinely fly through them. There are none to fly through in North
Texas.
On Aug 8, 2007, at 2:11 PM, Paul L. Safran wrote:
SOP at release is glider turns right, towplane left.
if glider turns before rope has ACTUALLY released
towplane gets pointed toward the ground, glider pilot
feels like he has a big sailfish on the line (stick) and
proceeds to overfly towplane that is now "hanging" from the
glider. As Fred said, hopefully "weak-link" fails & rope
releases both. I've had 2 of those situations. I know I released
one, probably had weak-link fail on the other. At 2000' agl not
a big deal, on the runway or below 500' is what kills towpilots.
Can also get rolled, literally, in the rotor of a wave. BTDT, glider
didn't stay attached for long.
;-)
Paul
******************************************************
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----- Original Message -----
From: "E. O. Lake" <eolake at rogers.com>
To: <aeronca at westmont.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Cleared to Land (was What's going
onwiththef-AAfamily?)###
The problem is (can be) sometimes the tow plane gets inverted ...
Please tell me this is an extremely rare occurrence. What are the
odds and
the cause?
Thanks!
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu
[mailto:aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu]
On
Behalf Of Fred Steadman
Sent: August 8, 2007 11:38 AM
To: aeronca at westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Cleared to Land (was What's going on
withthef-AAfamily?)###
The problem is (can be) sometimes the tow plane gets inverted and the
tension is now downward. Some operators actually install the
Schweitzer hook upside down (TSA used to do that). With the TOST
hook, it doesn't matter from which direction the tension comes.
I never had one point me at the ground, but I have had a couple of
broken ropes from gliders turning away without having gotten a proper
release. It jerks you around pretty good(ly). Instructors on board
both times. As long as those ropes break before any damage is done
to
either airplane, that is a good thing.
As far as a balloon take-off, I don't know what will save you. We
had
one at TSA a few years ago. The pilot at the time was a retired
airline pilot and possibly the most experienced tow pilot TSA had.
Still in ground effect, he managed to dump the rope in time to save
himself, but not the engine and prop. Anyone else might have been
killed. The man has not flown another tow from that day to this.
There has been some talk of developing an automatic tow release which
would potentially react more quickly than a human pilot. I was a
strong supporter of a rule that the auto release would activate any
time the stick touched the back stop with full power in, until one day
my stick touched the back stop with full power in during a routine
take-off from the grass. It may still be a good rule even though
that
particular tow would have been aborted unnecessarily.
Fred Steadman
Irving, Texas
214 762 6376
fstead at mac.com
On Aug 8, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Paul L. Safran wrote:
well Fred,
actually had to check, but all three glider towhooks I looked at
yesterday
still open upward, ie..... added tension in a take-off balloon or
turning
before the rope releases at altitude.
Scariest part of towing on the ground for sure, though having now
lost
2
ropes when the glider pointed me at the ground at altitude in the
towplane,
makes for a good story afterward.
Paul
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Steadman" <fstead at mac.com>
To: <aeronca at westmont.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Cleared to Land (was What's going on with
thef-AAfamily?)###
Glider pilots run a double risk if they lose sight of the tow plane.
In addition to a possible collision, there is the possibility of
hanging the tow plane from the glider's nose. Any glider has
enough
wing power to win a tug of war with any tow plane's tail, so that if
the glider out climbs the tow plane the tow plane can end up
pointing
straight down. This is very harrowing, especially close to the
ground.
With the old style Swietzer tow hooks it is possible to experience a
situation where neither of the aircraft can release from the tow
line.
In that case the glider ends up following the tow plane into the
ground. I don't think anybody uses those on the tow plane end
anymore.
Fred Steadman
Irving, Texas
214 762 6376
fstead at mac.com
On Aug 2, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Jerry Eichenberger wrote:
Mike -
We don't allow formation landings unless the pilots request the
same.
There's a huge difference between landing two airplanes 6,000 feet
apart on
the same runway, especially when they are relatively slow GA
airplanes, and
trying a formation landing with fighters.
Formation work is difficult, and inherently dangerous, especially
close to
the ground where the margin for error approaches zero.
One of the cardinal rules about formation flying is that if one in
trail of
the leader or otherwise behind him, loses sight of the leader, get
out
of
there right away. Break off, and re-join later.
Even glider pilots are taught that if they ever lose sight of the
tow
plane,
pull the release NOW. Actually, flying a glider on tow is somewhat
like
formation flying.
Jerry E.
-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu
[mailto:aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu]On Behalf Of Spence, Mike
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:21 PM
To: aeronca at westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Cleared to Land (was What's going on with
the
f-AAfamily?)###
Speaking of more than one on the runway at the same time...Have you
seen the
Mustang incident at OSH video?
-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu
[mailto:aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu]On Behalf Of Ian Harvie
Sent: August 2, 2007 1:13 PM
To: aeronca at westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] ### Cleared to Land (was What's going on with
the
f-AA family?)###
Mike, I'll let Don answer that as I now days rarely fly into
towered
airports, however "cleared to land " was in common usage in South
Africa
when I flew there and it was not uncommon to have one on the runway
in
front although I think a phrase such as "continue your approach"
might
have been used in some circumstances, then "cleared to land" when
the
runway was clear.
I do remember several times at air shows when it got busy, applying
quite some brake with the tail still up in the Stinson when I was
catching up on then guy in front. (This wasn't so difficult in the
Stinson if you knew what you were doing)
I do agree that with light aircraft there should be no problem with
someone in front as you should always be ready to go round.
Woke up, must be jet lag from arriving back, its 0300 in the
morning
here.
Ian
Spence, Mike wrote:
List - We've just been discussing, here in the office, our newly
implemented, (by our ATS provider, Nav Canada), anticipated
"clearances
to land " both for VFR and IFR.
Up until this year in Canada, an aircraft on final would not be
"Cleared
To Land" by ATC, until the preceding aircraft had lifted off or
cleared
the runway after landing. The 5 most major airports in Canada have
implemented the use of anticipated clearances like the U.S. has
used
for
years. Any comments - pro or con?
And for our Australian neighbors...Someone mentioned that you
don't
use
the phrase "Cleared To land". How is is it handled "Down Under" ?
Mike S.
-----Original Message-----
*From:* aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu
[mailto:aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu]*On Behalf Of *Rafael
*Sent:* August 2, 2007 9:26 AM
*To:* aeronca at westmont.edu
*Subject:* Re: [f-AA] ### What's going on with the f-AA
family?###
Do they have magazines? I thught it was a rumor lol, so they
work
in
a different time continium and they can travel back and forth
between times...... wish I could do the same same lol
*/Arecit at aol.com/* wrote:
Actually- that sounds like a good iddee- turning the ole
clock
back a few years. Great idea....
Nancie- down in swampville
In a message dated 8/1/2007 5:48:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight
Time,
Joe at Preston-Company.com writes:
I* think it was around that time when I received my
last
one. :>)
I know you are trying Brian, but you just make it so
easy
for us to yank
your chain....
JP
*
-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu
[mailto:aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu]On Behalf Of John
Baker
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:11 PM
To: aeronca at westmont.edu; Joe at Preston-Company.com
Subject: Re: [f-AA] What's going on with the f-AA
family?
Joe,
Just yesterday I received Volume 13, #2, dated
"Spring,
2000." Seems that
the NAA operates in an alternate reality where time is
on
a
different
schedule. :) But I can't complain - dues collection
seems
to be on the same
schedule. It was a nice article by the Poobah and
recounts
the story many
of us saw online back at the turn of the century.
John B. www.hangar9aeroworks.com
-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu
[mailto:aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu] On
Behalf Of Joe Preston
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 4:54 PM
To: aeronca at westmont.edu
Subject: Re: [f-AA] What's going on with the f-AA
family?
When did that come out? I can't remember the last
time I
received one.
-----Original Message-----
From: aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu
[mailto:aeronca-bounces at westmont.edu]On Behalf Of Mike
Knemeyer
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 2:22 PM
To: aeronca at westmont.edu; jodydeb at earthlink.net
Subject: [f-AA] What's going on with the f-AA family?
John Rodkey, Eric & Tacky
They are on the front & back cover of the latest NAA
Magazine Plus a
great story of their flight to the 2006 Middletown,
Ohio
fly-in.
Mikek
On 8/1/07, JODY WITTMEYER <jodydeb at earthlink.net> wrote:
My baby brother just got his Lt. Col. 6 months ago for the
USMC. Now he is
working for Sikorsky, flying their newest big bird.
JODY WITTMEYER
jodydeb at earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley
To: aeronca at westmont.edu
Sent: 8/1/2007 10:47:29 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Fw: TKO NOTICE: A28 eBay Password Reset
-planesellerFollowInstructions Immediately
Congratulations! My daughter got her Lt Col in the
Airforce about 5 years
ago. Had to go to England for the ceremony. Cost abit
but I wouldn't have
missed it nor her retirement ceremony this spring.
Again, These are the milestones in anyone's life. Things
that make great
memories.
Congratulations.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A 46 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Holmes
To: aeronca at westmont.edu
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [f-AA] Fw: TKO NOTICE: A28 eBay Password
Reset -
planesellerFollowInstructions Immediately
Youngest is getting his Lt Col, USMC promotion and his
second bronze star.
Tom
John Rodkey <poobahster at gmail.com> wrote:
I must have missed this. What's the big ceremony, Tom?
On 8/1/07, Tom Holmes <thomastholmes512 at sbcglobal.net >
wrote:
Did you follow the "forgot your password?" route?? You
may have to call
email) their help desk to sort it out.
Tom, off to the big ceremony in a couple of minutes.
planeseller < steubers at theunion.net> wrote:
The bad news is that I cannot access my account, it comes
up with an
invalid
password. Now what coach?
--
John (poobah) Rodkey - N9361E 11AC at Goleta
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Fred Steadman
Irving, Texas
214 762 6376
fstead at mac.com
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Fred Steadman
Irving, Texas
214 762 6376
fstead at mac.com
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